It still Sux to be a woman working in IT (Subtitle: Catherine has a rant)
Posted on 27. Feb, 2009 by geekgirlblogs in Girl Geek Dinners, Podcast
With International Women’s day approaching on March the 6th, I decided to share some of the chellenges I have faced as a Woman working in IT. I am hoping that we can start a discussion about what it is like to work in IT, and start to address these challenges for the next generation of Women thinking of a career in IT.
Some of the topics I share include what it was like to Study IT at University, working as the only female in IT teams, the effect of taking maternity leave & attending It conferences as a female.
I know this is a bit of a rant, but please – feel free to add your thoughts & comments below.
Spot on in so many respects.
I still sometimes find going to events and conferences daunting – even those I organise!
Some (Note: not all!) of the males at these events won’t look at you in the face in a group discussion. It’s like you don’t exist! I’ve introduced myself to some more than twice, and they still look past me. Others write me off when I say I’m a community manager. (soft skill?) After a while, you just have to say “meh” at em and keep doing what you do. I really dislike thinking about things in terms of gender. If a person can’t treat me right, it’s more about them than my gender. So… MEH!
But then, don’t forget the flip side. There are some really really great people in the community, men and women, who give you the time of the day, are always ready with encouragement and support, show you some respect, and make it all worth it
Hi Catherine,
I listened to your ‘rant’ and hopefully I can provide some meaningful feedback, despite not being a female and it being unlikely I will ever be one.
I have not personally experienced working in this industry from the perspective of a woman. However, like you, I have seen university classes dominated by one sex. In my case it was physics and mathematics classes as I’m a physics graduate. By the time we got to honours, there was one female left to about six of us males. Something skews the balance.
Whether it is nature or nurture I do not know. The most direct way to find out would be to ask. If you want to know why people change out of an IT course, I’m sure the universities would have no problem assisting in distributing an ‘exit survey’. Collating the reasons would give a foundation for addressing any issues that become evident and provide a direction for providing the support structure you mention. any university with an area devoted to gender studies would be very interested in participating, I imagine.
I found it amusing you mentioned men-only shirts. Your company committed this same mistake when they did the CRM launch last year. The ‘thank you’ gift was a shirt with CRM embroidered on the pocket. All sizes but men-only shirts. While the event was dominated by males, the females that did attend were not amused at the thoughtlessness.
It is disappointing you have been treated as the ‘junior’ because of your sex. If possible, take consolation in knowing you eroded that paradigm by your presence. Like the male nurse or PA, as awareness and acceptance increases, prejudice and ignorance will be removed.
Now the big question. What do we do with women leaving the workforce to look after bubs? I have one possible answer that is often overlooked. Paid paternity leave. If we empower men with the option to become the primary carer, we also empower women with the option to remain working. There are logistical issues such as breastfeeding which need to be addressed but solving these are trifles compared to the stigma and financial issues faced by a ‘stay at home’ father in Australia today. While the more progressive organisations provide ‘paid carers leave’, this is not mandatory or legislated. When I had my son, my employer allowed me to take as much unpaid leave off as I liked. Of course, quitting my job would have afforded me the same rights.
I am a firm believer that men, on the whole, can be part of the solution and WANT to be part of the solution and paid paternity leave is one such way.
Hi Catherine, Love you Rant. What about a Women in IT summit. Whenever we get together for GGD it’s always either social or listening to one or two speakers. What about an event where we can get a number of women around a table and all have a say. I know a location that is big enough to hold this, and we could have it for one of our regular GGD events (with some socialising after of course!). We would have to have an outcome to the summit, but I’m not sure yet what that would be – just thinking out loud at the moment.
Hey Catherine,
I have a few more challenges for you:
1. Working with only males means that socializing is a whole different ball game. I am quite conscience when I am out with my married male colleagues, especially alone cause I know how I would feel if my boyfriend was out with another women (ie jealous).
2. While the men can get build a repoire with the other males over a few drinks to either help team build, or help expand their own network/business, as soon as a women does it then they are obviously flirting with the guy and want a date.
3. Sounds daft and really girly, but companies usually set their dress code in terms of what men wear – ie ‘black pants, short sleeved shirt is fine’ or ‘suit only’ or ‘jeans and a collared t-shirt’ However, these don’t relate easily to womens outfits and so it can be very difficult, especially just starting out as a graduate to know what to wear to work. And, if you start off wearing slacks and a shirt to work to match what the guys wear, on the odd occasion where you might put on a nice skirt/dress/heels, then you are gawked at (oopps…theres all my credibility flushed down the toilet thanks to me showing my legs and arms).
I wouldn’t say I have tried hard to prove myself throughout my career, but I did and do surround myself with both men and women who find even subtle dismissal or prejudice based on gender unacceptable.
Any hint of being overlooked, ignored in conversation or meetings, or being put down is quickly identified and resolved in a mature manner.
My male colleagues often educate clients by continually referring to me to answer questions or pointing out my expertise in a particular area. I even, sometimes rudely, hijack a Q&A if a question was asked of my male colleague but obviously meant to be for me.
Any housekeeping issues brought up during staff meetings are owned by all of us, and not left as a “womens’ task”.
I’m also offered hot beverages by both my male and female co-workers if it’s tea-time in the kitchen.
One thing I *do* notice is the abundance of men at events and generally in the industry.
Following on from my last reply, GetUp have a petition to convince the government to make compulsory paid parental leave. While many progressive companies already do this, many do not and are not obliged to under the current legislation.
I strongly encourage people to sign the petition at:
http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/AllTheOtherKidsAreDoingIt&id=381
Empower men with the choice to stay at home and we empower women with the choice to stay at work. 12 months paid parental leave simply removes the financial barrier from the equation. Now all we have to do is change the stigma around ‘stay at home dads’…
Just wanted to share an article on the subject, which points to the implications of the imbalance of gender in the field: http://benwerd.com/2009/03/gender-differences-on-the-new-frontier/
I usually don’t post in blogs but your blog forced me to, amazing work.. beautiful !
I am a 27 year old female (and blonde to make matters worse) who has been working in IT for the past 5 years. I have recently made the decision to leave the role as a techie, as I have seen that the treatment towards women throughout the industry is toxic to say the very least. From my personal experience it appears women working in IT are isolated and quite often it feels as though one is walking around with a bulls eye target around one’s neck. For these reasons, I am now finishing my masters and like most experienced women in the industry, taking another route.
Hello:
I stumbled upon this podcast from browsing around looking for new things to listen to, and this caught my eye. After listening to your rant, I wanted to add my thought. (Thank you for making an open to public posts)
First of all, I wanted to say: If someone is being a weirdo by not accepting females because it is male dominated job, it’s their problem. There is absolutely no reason a normally thinking open minded person will do that. Most people will respect and treat others well.
On the other hand, It could be ladies’ stronger self awareness and people connection that makes them feel this way. Growing up with girls I’m kind of starting to understand them (they are quite complex for guy’s brains to understand
) When ladies talk in a group it is quite different than guys do. At times when after an event I come home totally happy thinking it was such an awesome group of people that I met (don’t know any of their names though 
) my sisters will come home almost in tears thinking they’ve been ignored and nobody likes them…. All I’m saying that it could be not as much ignorance or dis-credibility as much as women’s self awareness. For guys not looking at each other when talking or only saying “Hi” or not wanting to sit buy each other is quite normal, and when working in such field females are many times in these situations. I understand your situation is on a greater scale, but I just wanted to give a simpler example of what might be happening on subconscious level.
This podcast was quite a surprise for me, because over the years I formed an opinion that females don’t like technical side of the technology. Growing up as a brother of 2 awesome sisters, I was always the person that they ran to when they had a slightest technical problem in almost any technology. Also I am usually hesitant to talk about technology around females because I am look at as if I am like CooCoo Weirdo
So when I meet a female who can talk tech-talk it is always a surprise for me, and I’m sure many other guys (and even girls). So you need to be aware that these reactions may be a result of a surprise shock and unaware actions because of an unusual situation.
Anyways if you are still reading this I just wanted to say thank you for being different, and apologize for us men for who it is such a shock that we may look rude. You know one smart person said: “Both men and women are equal only they are not the same.” Both have same amount of things that they need to face in life only they are not the same.
You you could edit the blog subject title
It still Sux to be a woman working in IT (Subtitle: Catherine has a rant) | The GeekGirlBlogs Podcast to more specific for your subject you make. I loved the blog post nevertheless.
Women are somehow not as appreciated as men in IT. We need to prove to men that we can do equally well job.
And this is the tragedy that there is a necessity to prove anything. I went to Cebit this week and yet again the ‘booth dollies’ were there. Short, short black skirts, tight white t-shirts with no purpose other than to warm booth chairs. Asking them a question invariably leads to a ‘I don’t know, ask the people in suits’, generally males.
While I am sure there is more to it, these stunts certainly do not help the cause. It also undermines any professional woman also on stands at Cebit who do know what they’re talking about and trying to drum up trade for their company.
I have little advice other than this. Do not look to prove anything to anyone. Look to establish your credibility for its own sake. There is a difference. With one you start from a mental position of inferiority, the other you are starting from a position of superiority. One you are doing it for others, the other, for yourself.
There is no shame in justified arrogance. Ultimately if people do not use your talents to their full advantage, it is their loss and says more about them than about you.
The internet is a great way to gain a reputation. If you are passionate and have things to say, get it out there. You have nothing to lose other than spare time. Write blog articles, twitter, get on the forums, offer to speak at tech groups. If you have worked on interesting projects, people will want to hear about them and often groups and conferences are killing for willing, articulate speakers.
Of the 50 Microsoft CRM MVPs (big Microsoft product award thing), 2 are woman. A tragically low statistic but there is no doubt in my mind these woman are as passionate, dedicated and knowledgable as any of the other 48. The proof is also in their participation in the community. No one, without exception, is more involved in the CRM online forums than Donna Edwards. Julie Yack, the other CRM MVP, started the xrmvirtual user group and willingly speaks knowledgably on CRM and technology in general whenever given the chance.
Lastly, I acknowledge this is very easy for a male to say and does not take into account the will power required to ‘stick it out’ for an extended period of time.
Eleanor Roosevelt has many excellent quotes but the key one here is “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent”. Never give them the satisfaction.